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Of three Marvel movie universes, why do you think MCU is the one that worked, while X-Men and The Amazing Spider-Man failed?

Of three Marvel movie universes, why do you think MCU is the one that worked, while X-Men and The Amazing Spider-Man failed?

Of three Marvel movie universes, why do you think MCU is the one that worked, while X-Men and The Amazing Spider-Man failed?

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  1. FoX-Men is the 8th highest grossing movie franchise in history. Obviously not as successful as the MCU but to say it “failed” is a completely deranged perspective.

  2. Better connective tissue, better focus on all individual characters, better build-up, mostly better movies, more diverse movies, continuity.

  3. I’ve thought about this a lot and I think what it really boils down to is that Marvel has Kevin Feige and the buck stops with him. The other 2 franchises clearly had too many cooks in the kitchen. Even Raimi’s Spider-Man trilogy had that issue in SM3.

  4. The difference is Kevin Feige’s approach to making films, and that of Amy Pascal, Avi Arad and Tom Rothman.

    Feige has a vision of what he wants to tell now, and how that fits into the overall story he wants to tell. Sony and Fox were only interested in making stand alone movies, in a familiar sequel structure.
    When you look at Spider-Man, Spider-Man 2, Logan, Deadpool, you can just see the absence of executive interference. Once the suits get involved, you get TASM, X3, Apocalypse and Spider-Man 3.

  5. They took it slow and steady, starting with a not famous character and slowly building up, making things feel earned and characters coming together felt more like a big thing.

  6. Jon Favreau and Kevin Feige have to be leading forces in why the MCU has worked out better. Also, in my opinion, the MCU has done less “reworking” of backstories. In older Marvel films Bobby Drake is a student now rather than an equal, Johnny Storm is now adopted, Mr. Fantastic uses his powers for fun dance moves, Peter Parker just makes webs or is a skater with an attitude, no one trained Matt Murdock he just knew, Deadpool had his mouth sewn shut. As fans we concede certain points for the sake of time and to tell a coherent story, like making the Avengers with Steve Rogers as a founding member rather than an addition to an existing team. But when you change something core to the character’s personality or story people don’t react well. It would be like trying to make a Sherlock Holmes movie set in the future where he is a cyborg who second guesses himself at every crime scene. No one is going to care about him being a cyborg nearly as much as they are going to care about him not being a confident character.

  7. Sony’s Amazing Spider-Man franchise failed because Sony Pictures, or at least the people responsible for their biggest tentpole blockbusters, are absolute morons.

    Unlike most of Sony’s big movies, at least, they weren’t trying to glue broad modern social trends on to 30 year old nostalgia franchises.

    While the X-Men movies obviously weren’t a box office failure (well, except that last one), they were a creative failure overall. No plan, beyond ‘whenever Wolverine is not on screen everyone should be asking where’s Wolverine’. (You can replace Wolverine with Mystique as the series went on)

    Every single attempt to ape what Marvel has done has had the same critical flaw. Doesn’t matter if it’s the Distinguished Competition, Hasbro, Universal Monsters, Ghostbusters, Star Wars, Star Trek, whatever, none of them have had competent creative leadership.

  8. Amazing Spider-Man felt like a pretty cynical move to pump out a Spider-man movie to keep the rights with Sony. I don’t know the details and I’m sure their contract wasn’t close to being up, but after Raimi Spidey 4 fell through it seems like they panicked and rushed to put out a reboot that was spectacularly less than the sum of its parts.

    X-men is great and laid the foundation for a lot of modern day superhero films. I wouldn’t call it a failure at all. Weirdly enough it seemed stronger when the superhero film genre was still in its infancy and started getting lame when it was competing with the MCU.

    The MCU has a lot of things going for it. Disney money for most of its run, the fact that they’ve gotten to see superhero movies that boomed and those that bombed in the early 00s, etc. But I honestly think they caught lightning in a bottle with that first Iron Man and found a formula that turns old fans of the characters into diehards and casual filmgoers into old fans.

  9. Well, the others are hardly a fair comparison — they began as small subsets cut out of a bigger universe.

    The X-men were just a movie franchise. Yes, there was an attempt at worldbuilding and a few solo movies, but it wasn’t the idea of a shared universe. It was just the idea of a universe for one set of Marvel characters, revolving around the X-men. The same for ASM. Everything revolves around the Spider-man license.

    The MCU is adapting an actual huge universe of interconnected characters. The source material is a complete universe, not just one bit of it. While people might argue it’s “all just centred around the Avengers” that’s just not true. The characters are the centers of their own stories and come together in crossovers, and there are multiple stories progressing at once.

  10. The problem with *The Amazing Spider-Man* movies is that they were always putting the cart before the horse. The first one was a reboot most people didn’t see as necessary, while the second gets bogged down in setting up a handful of spin-offs no one was really interested in because no one was invested in that universe.

    The problem with the *X-Men* movies is that they had no forward momentum because they were constantly soft-rebooting themselves. There are some good movies in there, but it was almost destined to play as an also-ran when every movie after the initial trilogy seemed like a stand-alone project.

  11. IMO Fox and Sony were happy with what they had, spiderman and x-men were popular characters, they didn’t need to try hard to make money. They didn’t feel the need to start a shared universe until it was too late.

  12. I feel like it’s the fact the MCU plan ahead. Sometimes 5-10 years ahead. They know what they are doing and what the film needs to achieve to set up the next one and as long as they meet that goal, they should have no issues. Besides writing of course. Writing a script can make or break a film, no matter who’s in it or what the end goal is.

    DCEU and Fox however, seem to plan only a year ahead or not at all, which isn’t a bad thing, but could cause severe plot holes, the story jumping around a lot or being messy and not being in chronological order all the time. This could be one of the reasons their films don’t appeal to as many people as the MCU does.

    Furthermore (at least in my head), it comes down to two things: Structure and Execution.

    You need to know what you are doing and plan ahead. Know what the film needs to achieve and how that will link to the next if you are thinking about making a cinematic universe. Know how you want it to end and go from there – build up the script and make it achieve that goal. But secondly, consider execution. Make sure that the target audience (for whatever age group you are focusing on), is likely to be engaged at all points of your film. Make the script as good as possible, a bad script could ruin the whole idea. Keep the plot easy to understand and follow, but not too predictable or uninteresting. Keep mystery but not too much that it’s hard to piece together what is happening and add subtle humor to avoid the film becoming too heavily focused on plot and being too unrealistic and monotone. Remember the characters will not be serious all the time. If they were, audiences may become disinterested or lose focus during your film. And lastly, if not yourself, hire someone to write the script because they specialise in that genre. Don’t hire someone because they look experienced or are professional, or because they’ve worked on previous films of yours. Hire someone that will do justice to your idea and that will make your genre and film stand out from the crowd and seem more special from any other. Hire someone that will make your film appealing and entertaining to your target audience.

    This is something that I think Marvel are very good at, while DCEU and Fox aren’t as skilled at. Anyway, that’s all from me. Hope that answered your question.

    **Edit: I just realised I sounded like I was giving a pitch meeting there about how to run a film franchise and I’m not sure whether that’s a good thing or not. 😅**

  13. The Amazing Spider-Man is easy to answer. It “failed” mostly because of corporate politics. Sure, the franchise was already at a disadvantage because some people weren’t ready for a new Spider-Man so “soon” after Tobey, and some who were had become convinced that Peter didn’t work unless he was socially awkward and not handsome out of the suit, ignoring most incarnations of the character, but the main issue is that Sony wanted a Spider-Man franchise with spinoffs and prequels and team-ups, and they wanted it ASAP. So they stuffed the second movie with the seeds for these things, making it unwieldy in a way the first film wasn’t. And then between the email leak which left the public reading and ridiculing many of their plans, and Andrew Garfield missing the event where ASM3 was planned to be revealed due to an illness, Sony decided they needed to put the brakes on hard and swerve into a different direction. If the meddling and preconceived notions hadn’t been in play, that movie universe would have lasted a lot longer than it did.

    X-Men is a bit tougher since it lasted so much longer. Compare the ASM’s 2 movie franchise to X-Men’s 13. If we’re saying that the X-Men franchise “failed”, then that would likely be because at a certain point it felt like the franchise didn’t care anymore. New mutants kept being introduced, but very little time and substance was given to their characterizations. Continuity and logic were thrown out the window. Quality between the movies varied greatly from film to film. Fans lost faith in the X-Men universe because it didn’t appear to be telling a continuous story anymore, and these essentially unrelated stories were so variable in quality.

    On the other hand, the MCU movies, at least for the first three phases, always felt like they were building up to something. There was an ongoing plot, and the big name characters got real character development in most of their films. The big team up movies came after we already had a good handle on who all (well most of) the characters were. And even though the quality of the films aren’t all exactly the same, they’re generally close enough that you know you’re likely to at least have a decent time with a Marvel movie, which wasn’t always the case with the other franchises.

  14. X-Men had some crap efforts from Fox, but hard to say 13 films and a couple of TV shows (one was good, the other not) was a failure tbh.

  15. A big issue was time wasted between movies… If we would have got X-Men then a year later got 2 movies “The Wolverine origins” and a movie following say cyclops after x-men leading to x2. Then the following year got X-2 and a spin off movie and a origin movie then maybe it would have worked

    Also X-men had too many continuity issues after X-3.

    TAS started good but the 2nd was a convoluted mess. And also faced some backlash from the start for rebooting the franchise.

    All in All. The MCU doesn’t give any time to let itself die or fade out… It also helps that it hasn’t had a legit Flop or box office Bomb yet.

  16. I think TASMs biggest crime was that blue electro shit. Which I believe marvel is about to fix. Because the new look of electro is fucking epic. Love it so much.

  17. The others worked otherwise there wouldn’t have been a demand for more marvel movies those movies paved the way

  18. MCU embraced it. FoXmen was still in that “is this going to work?” phase. Even Raimi Spider-man was a HUGE gamble at the time. Only the Burton Batman had been successful before that.

    I think it’s hard to realize just how much “comic book” movies have changed.

    X-men had the leather outfits cuz no way you could put wolverine in the yellow & blue or the brown & tan. I really thinks it’s hard to understand just how much more rope was available when Marvel did Iron Man.

  19. I would say that MCU is completely different from the other two because it is built as a Cinematic Universe from the start, while the other two series are franchises of the usual kind, centered around one protagonist or one specific set of a few characters. As a franchise, I think at least X-Men succeeded — if you measure success by money earned: on Wikipedia, it is said to be the [8th-highest-grossing film series ever](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_films#Highest-grossing_franchises_and_film_series) (as comparisons, Pirates of the Caribbean is 14th and Twilight is 18th). It isn’t as big as the MCU, and nowhere near as profitable, but to be fair, it isn’t built to be a structure of 20+ movies that slowly introduces the viewers to a whole universe of characters living all together in a coherent world.

    NB: In the link posted above, Spider-Man is in the 6th position, but note that he is counted as a character, so Raimi, Webb, MCU, Venom and *Into the Spiderverse* are all summed up together.

  20. FoX-Men didn’t fail but they were inconsistent – X-Men, X2, First Class, The Wolverine, Days of Future Past, Logan and Deadpool 1&2 are all good to great

  21. Pardon the pun but Marvel Studios was the only one with an endgame in mind.

    Fox just kept making new movies without any clear finish line; they were just making it up as they went along.

    Sony went too far in the other direction and tried to build a whole universe in the span of one or two movies (Amazing Spider-Man 1 & 2).

  22. W/o the success of X Men, Blade and Spider-Man, we don’t get the MCU in all it’s greatness that it is.

    Someone has to jump out the window first for others to come after and do it better. This attitude among a few CB fans where they trash on those that came before to prop up today’s projects is unnecessary.

    There’s critique, then there’s punching down. Crazy part is, Feige was a producer (basically a student) soaking in everything on many Fox/Marvel films. Further proving those films were a success.

    They helped pave the way for CB films and 8/13 of those films were able to recoup. Their film with the lowest was a top 3 earner for them. It did so well, the 3rd film in it’s franchise is immediately being continued in the MCU.

  23. I’m sorry you are calling 13 movies a failure? Really? And at least 3 of them were fucking rad af. Logan being probably the best among them. But come 13 movies is hardly a failure.

    Amazing spider man is underrated. I love Andrew as spider man. I like Tom holland a lot to. But Andrew was underrated. While tobey is vastly over rated.

  24. X-Men only failed in the end. Logan was a great send-off but even it didn’t seem to care about the other X-Men, and Dark Phoenix wasn’t a good enough finale, since IIRC it wasn’t even intended to be one.

    Amazing Spider-Man was a generic rehash with excessively forced world-building and lame villains