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[Other] DC Comics hated Mike Barr dirty for creating Damian

[Other] DC Comics hated Mike Barr dirty for creating Damian

[Other] DC Comics hated Mike Barr dirty for creating Damian

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  1. BARR, despite being seen as one of the great Bat-writers, caused a lot of controversy @ DC. He was fired in the early 80s off of Batman and the Outsiders because he went to a public forum where he was asked to talk Batman… He defended Bill Finger and was fired by Dick Giordano for “speaking against the company.”

    Fans have ALWAYS looked very highly on BARR. DC hated the man!

  2. Wow. It really saddens me when I hear these stories of these corporations treating creators like trash or being cruel or disrespectful toward them. And I hear these stories pretty often. 🙁

  3. Denny just saying Batman can’t have children checks out with what Denny did to that kid, who was invented specifically to be adopted by Bruce, lol. Love your work, Denny, but lol.

  4. Idk I feel for the bind this guy was in but acting like “I guess Grant Morrison gets to do it tho!” seems disingenuous. It was so much later in a run that was very intentionally going to draw on even semi-canon parts of Batman’s history. It’s not like a few weeks after they said no to Barr they had Morrison in the office giving a pitch

  5. Dang I was gonna post something similar, but this is real?

    Why does he keep saying Damian in this specific quote when he didn’t create him. He just created the first child of Talia and Bruce.

    Damian is night and day different from this. Hell he wasn’t even gonna be called that in SOD.

    But in the quote I saw he didn’t like how Mark Waid and Grant Morrison were allowed to write stories of Batman’s son, but he couldn’t.

  6. Mike Barr is having selective memory.

    1) Dennis O’neil Co-created Talia and Ras with Neal Adams. When they were doing this 22 dollar painted hardback graphic novel, he was not the main Bat editor yet, just doing a few books. The only reason Barr added the child, so to give the reader bang for their buck. It was a complete shock-value storytelling. (This was in an interview with Barr and O’neil about story in *Alter Ego*)

    In those days, DC writers had to check with creators or others editor. Barr went to O’neil with the story and said he was going to it. O’neil said, “I’m not your editor, I don’t think it’s a good idea, but I’m not going to stop another writer from a story.”

    The reason being, If Talia and Bruce got married, he would stop being Batman, if a kid was involved, doubly so. O’neil had always envisioned the romance to be a doomed affair: lovers giving up what made them attractive to each other. Also, having a kid *starts aging a character* Batman, for the longest time, was perpetually just below 30 years of age. Look at all the issue with Jon Kent aging and De-aging.

    But Denny was a pro and he wouldn’t stop anothers person story if he had no editorial control. Once he became Bat-Editor, no mention of the kid was allowed again. Denny wouldn’t even allow it for *Kingdom Come.*, even though it was Elsewirlds. When Zero Hour came out, Denny announced that Bat Baby was gone. No one really cared or remembered that book.

    2) Certainly Outsiders was a hit, but it wasn’t the Main Bat Book. And Barr has an a habit of letting his Batman tricking people into killing themselves. Or just allowing them to die.

    Personally, Barr is not my favorite writer of anything.

  7. “Sorry Mike, but I think you don’t get Batman or his character. The Son of Batman? Nobody would ever buy such a story. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got a meeting. Me and the boys are going to drag Hal Jordan through the mud to save Green Lantern.”

  8. Well this was before that. When Denny Oneil stopped being the main editor after 2000 is when Batman started getting a bunch of children.

    Most of his children he’s never raised either, only Jason and Dick.

  9. >Grant Morrison comes along, I guess all bets are off

    This is exactly what I was thinking until I got to the part where he said if himself

  10. Hopefully he’ll see compensation from the new Batman film. DC/WB has generally been better at compensating their talent post Watchmen (see Neal Adams apparently receiving $100k from Batman Begins), but that’s not saying the whole system isn’t rigged and set up to screw over creatives.

  11. I never liked the concept of Damian, but not because he was the child of a superhero. Because he was a child produced by rape, and I felt that rape wasn’t dealt with. Canonically, Talia drugged Batman and had sex with him without his true consent. It doesn’t feel like that has ever been properly confronted.

    Of course, that shouldn’t be held against Damian, but it shouldn’t be whitewashed just because he exists.

    Compare that to the consensual relationship between Speedy/Arsenal and Cheshire, and their daughter. That was much better handled — the contrast between the child born out of love and the deeply different moralities of the parents was a much better story note than the eternal, uncomfortable avoidance of Talia’s rape, abusive parenting, and general monstrosity.

  12. “Superheroes don’t have children” I feel like that train left the station with Batman a few solid decades ago. Is there a superhero that has more children than that guy??

  13. Nothing against Mike Barr, but I agree with Dennis O’Neil on this. Batman should never father any children.

  14. If anyone is interested the entire speech he gives concerning his career, along with the Q&A session in which he speaks about things like Batman killing and Damian Wayne, is recorded here.

    https://deconstructingcomics.com/?p=6624

    Very intriguing stuff.

  15. He didn’t create Damian Wayne. There was an unnamed child in Son of the Demon given up for adoption. That child was named Ibn Al Xuffasch (lit Son the Bat) in Kingdom Come.

    Barr’s Batman was a major dick in Outsiders and borderline unlikeable so I can see why some had a problem with that take (the irony being DC would later embrace Batman as a cold unfeeling machine who viewed his partners as weapons). Batman: Year Two is another story he did that was retconned out but I can understand why that was done.

    Son of the Demon however was actually good. Talia was depicted well in it and one of the few stories to depict her mom. So retconning it never made sense. Especially since the child was given up for adoption. The reasoning I’ve heard is that editor Denny O’Neill viewed Batman as impotent (maybe not physically but psychologically) and thus incapable of having a child. DC also had an obsession with the youth market at the time so they didn’t want heroes looking too old and they also wanted to remove older characters like the JSA by killing them off in Zero Hour (only for Mark Waid to throw it back at them by making Jay Garrick an integral part of the Flash comics).

    I’m not sure how Barr feels about Damian Wayne or if he’s even read Batman and Son. Morrison brought the story back but couldn’t remember the details and had Batman claim that Talia raped him. Damian himself is depicted as an arrogant little snot. Morrison started the push towards Talia being a mustache twirling villainness.

    Barr’s Talia was the more classic anti villain version who was torn between her father and Batman but wasn’t a bad person per say.